Buffaloed by TATA - Part 2
Buffaloed by TATA - Part 2
Date: Sunday, July 25, 2004 6:15 PM
JOB DESTRUCTION NEWSLETTER
by Rob Sanchez
July 25, 2004 - No. 1064
I don't often publish rebuttals but this one from Abhimanyu
Radhakrishnan, an Indian technology reporter in Mumbai, is worth
discussing. Radhakrishnan voices his concern over my recent newsletter
titled "Buffaloed by TATA" - July 20, 2004. and graciously gave me
permission to use his comments.
This newsletter is divided into three parts.
1 - Radhakrishnan's letter.
2 - My comments.
3 - A pro-outsourcing article by Radhakrishnan.
5 - "Untouchables In The World Of IT" By Gail Omvedt
Dear Rob,
Hi. I cover the IT industry from Mumbai (Bombay) for CNBC India and am
a regular reader of your newsletter. As a country which has been at the
receiving end of globalization (in every industry till we found
something that we were good at i.e.. IT) we know what it feels like to
be out of jobs and thus the press here watches the job situation in the
US very closely.
Your newsletters are very often well researched and provide a wealth of
data and facts.
However of late a little bit of vitriol seems to be seeping into the
debate and a number of well meaning advocates such as yourself and Norm
Matloff seem to be purposely or inadvertently falling into the trap. I
don't want to use the word racist since it has too many incorrect
connotations but the references to Indian offshoring seem far more
laced with this vitriolic
sentiment than offshoring to say Ireland, Australia and Russia.
In order to prove my point let me bring up a few debatable points in
this particular newsletter. For instance you say that "...TATA rarely
hires American citizens because they prefer to 'import their own kind'
from India ..." It almost seems as if Indians are, to take a leaf out
of Calvin and Hobbes, "Weirdos from another planet."
Then you say that "TATA hires almost exclusively upper-caste young
Hindi males." There are number of debatable points here the first of
which being that "Hindi males" doesn't make too much sense. I think you
mean "HindU males". Hindi is a language spoken in North India while
Hindus are followers of Hinduism which is the religion of over 80% of
India's citizens. Less than
50% of Indians speak Hindi and in fact TATA Consultancy Services' (TCS)
top two executives are South Indians who would be far more comfortable
speaking in English and their mother tongue Tamil, than in Hindi.
Incidentally the TATA group is run by a Parsee family of the same name.
Parsees are the original inhabitants of Persia (Iran) who fled the
Islamic conquerors in the
middle ages to settle down in Western India. They follow the teachings
of Zaruthastra and are also called Zoroastrians. It is a completely
different religion from Hinduism. Most of the financial stake in TCS is
held by companies under the TATA umbrella which are all run by Parsees.
Incidentally, the other company that you guys often take potshots at -
WIPRO, is owned by a Muslim gentleman Azim Premji. On a broader note,
the current President of India is a Muslim, the Prime Minister is a
Sikh and the leader of the largest party in the co-alition government
is a Christian.
I agree that there is not much wrong in your statement that the Indian
IT industry is dominated by "high-caste" Hindu males though a better
definition would be urban Indian males. The reason for this has less to
do with any bias or discrimination and more to do with historical
trends. Its the same reason why Silicon Valley is dominated by white
men as are Wall Street and much of American Government. The so called
"upper castes" were patronized by the British in colonial times so that
a class of Western-educated administrators could run the "Raj". Thus
most young upper middle class people in Indian cities would be third or
even fourth generation English speakers with a professional education.
Exactly like in America though to a
slightly greater extent, there are very few women in engineering though
there is no disparity in fields like medicine or teaching and in my
profession in particular (broadcast journalism) they dominate. If you
go through the enrollment figures in MIT or Caltech you will see an
identical trend. We've seen enough of the nerd/geek culture of the US
to know that the
phenomenon isn't very different in the US tech industry. Thus if TCS
happens to have a very high proportion of people from this particular
demographic it isn't because of discrimination but rather because the
pool of people who come out of t engineering schools happen to be from
that demographic. This is also changing slowly as more people from what
were once "lower castes" get access to professional education and
obtain engineering degrees. It took a long time for African Americans
to get college degrees (thanks to Tuskegee et al) and we as a
democratic country that does not recognize caste difference are only 50
years old, so centuries of discrimination will take time to reverse.
I hope you continue to advocate your cause in the spirit of healthy
debate but at the same time try and keep the debate objective and fair.
Looking forward to receiving more newsletters.
Best Wishes
Abhimanyu Radhakrishnan
My comments
Issue #1
Is TATA discriminatory?
In "Buffaloed by TATA" - July 20, 2004 I alleged that TATA's hiring
practices are racist, sexist, and ageist.
TATA rarely hires American citizens because they prefer to import
their own kind from India by using H-1B and L-1 visas. TATA hires
almost exclusively upper-caste young Hindi males. American
citizens are shunned by TATA even if they are Indian.
Radhakrishnan only managed one substantial objection by pointing out
that I should use "Hindu" instead of "Hindi". I concede that
Radhakrishnan is correct but it's important to note that he didn't
mention that the employees are mostly of the Brahmin caste, who by
definition are Hindu. I suspect that he didn't mention the word
"Brahmin" to avoid my central thesis that TATA hires based on caste and
religion. In the United States we consider selection of that type to be
racist, sexist, ageist, as well as discrimintion based on religious
beliefs.
http://www.beyondbooks.com/wcu91/3g.asp
The Hindu caste system is ordered hierarchically, with Brahmins at
the
top and Sudras at the bottom. Untouchables, also known as Harijans
or
Dalits, fall outside of the caste system all together.
TATA hires Brahmins because they are the preferred caste for IT
workers. Gail Omvedt wrote that:
"In Pune they just assume that anyone working in computers is a
Brahmin," says a young man from a small town near our home in
Western India.
"caste still operates as a defining condition in establishing
marriages, social relations, and access to employment"
Radhakrishnan cleverly uses "smoke and mirror" techniques to avoid the
fact that TATA's discriminatory hiring practices are accepted in India
even though officially companies are not supposed to use caste in their
hiring decisions. My original statement is based on the fact that TATA
almost never hires American workers because their caste-based culture
wouldn't allow it. Discrimination of this type is repulsive wherever it
occurs and it should not be tolerated in the United States. Bodyshops
such as TATA import their caste system here and that is why many people
consider them racist.
Three-and-a-half years ago, Dalits converged in massive numbers
at Durban in South Africa to argue before the United Nations
World Conference Against Racism that caste was, indeed, a form of
race-related and birth-linked discrimination.
Radhakrishnan and I discussed this issue further. Here is an excerpt:
SANCHEZ: In all points except minor stuff such as the fact that I
confused Hindi and Hindu, you seem to agree with me. You agree that
Tata, Infosys, and the other Indian bodyshops don't hire American
citizens. We both know they don't, so what's the argument about? You
even agree that they are sexist and ageist, as well as racist.
RADHAKRISHNAN: I COMPLETELY DISAGREE with the ageist/sexist/racist
part. Among the people who apply there is NO such discrimination. Its
just that people who DO apply for such jobs are from the upper class
urban male demographic! I've been
filing stories on CNBC about how companies are looking to hire older
people since 25 year olds are too casual about their jobs and keep
hopping and don't seem to have maturity. The sexist part is COMPLETELY
untrue. If you look at the percentage of women who apply and are take
by Indian IT companies it is MUCH higher than men. In fact the joke at
the Indian Institutes of Technology is that if you are a woman, you
needn't even bother to appear for an interview - you're hired! The
male:female ratio at these institutes is 40:1 and this is in a group of
institutes where admission is brutally based PURELY on rankings in a
nationwide exam! IT companies WANT to have a more diverse workforce so
they often LOWER the entry standards for
women - they'll never admit though. If 10 women and 40 men apply, all
ten women will be taken while half the men will be rejected. As for
American citizens, Infosys has just hired an American to head its
consulting arm worldwide so it is changing ... slowly yes but it HAS to
if these companies
want to survive as global players.
FOLLOWUP COMMENT: Radhakrishnan's excuses for TATA's discriminatory
practices just don't wash. Women and lower castes don't apply to TATA
because they aren't welcome and worse yet, they aren't allowed to get
the education necessary to qualify for good jobs. Caste based hiring is
tolerated in India and that is sad but that's not the issue for
American workers. Indian bodyshops import their practices when they
operate in the United States.
TATA isn't the only Indian bodyshop to discriminate - they probably all
do. This is an excerpt from an email I recently received:
Where I work, the parasitic indian bodyshop of choice is Covansys.
Of the hundreds of covansys employees working there, I know of
only one who is not an indian. All the rest are indians, 90%
male and 10% females in colorful flowing robes.
Issue #2
Who are the bodyhops hiring?
According to Radhakrishnan, TATA (TCS) is a Hindu organization. WIPRO
is owned by Muslims.
TATA and WIPRO are the two largest bodyshops in the world. Their
business includes the import of H-1B and L-1 visa holders to the U.S.,
and the outsourcing of our jobs to India. Our sensitive infrastructure
and private information is increasingly being outsourced to Hindus and
Muslims. I'll leave it up to the reader to pass judgement on the folly
of allowing this to happen.
Issue #3
Is the Job Destruction Newsletter vitriolic, or even racist?
Radhakrishnan's writing skills are evident when he skillfully implies,
but never actually says, that racism may be involved in my choice of
India as the #1 topic for the newsletter. He complains that the
newsletters don't mention countries such as Ireland and Israel.
Obviously he didn't check the newsletter archives before making that
statement because I have featured many other countries including
Ireland and Israel. Asia will continue to be the focus of this
newsletter as long as the vast majority of H-1B and L-1 visas come from
Asia and offshoring takes place in India and China. His assertion that
racism was involved was probably a cultural difference in translation
(see #4) while his perception that the level of vitriol in the
newsletter has increased lately is probably caused by the
fact that he hasn't received it long enough. I have always had lots of
vitriol and don't intend on changing any time soon.
As talk show radio host Terry Andersons says, "If you ain't mad, you
ain't payin' attention!"
Issue #4
Weirdos from another planet?
SANCHEZ: I'm not sure you knew what I meant by "hiring their own kind".
This is a common US expression that usually has means that whites hire
whites, blacks hire blacks etc.
RADHAKRISHNAN: in the context that it was used, it did come across as a
bit biased but if it wasn't used with that intention then apologies on
my part
http://www.openoutsource.com/resource-dated2431-Frank%20Pallone%20against%20outsourcing%20to%20India.phtml
Frank Pallone against outsourcing to India
Added on 20-Jan-2004 since then gained 46 hits Visit the site
containing this resource.
Discuss this resource in the Outsource & Service Provision Forums.
Join in with the OpenOutsource community - it is free!!! -
and collaborate with other freelancers, companies, outsourcers and
service providers.
Long-time friend US Congressman Frank Pallone is against outsourcing of
business to India, as it will result in job losses in the US.
US Congressman Frank Pallone, founder of the India Caucus in the US and
a long-time friend of India, isn't quite so friendly now. He has
adopted an economically unfriendly posture. Pallone has made it clear
that he is against the phenomenon of outsourcing of business to India,
reports CNBC-TV18.
"We need to actively promote the fact that there are positive aspects
to trade between India and the US and that it's all not just
outsourcing. But the party as a whole and myself as well are not in
favour of outsourcing. We see it as a negative thing primarily due to
the job loss that it creates in the US," Pallone said.
Pallone after all is answerable to voters in New Jersey, which was the
first state to attempt to ban government outsourcing. And in a year in
which his party is trying to wrest the White House, the last thing he
wants to do is anger middle class working Americans who might interpret
his pro-India stance as pro-outsourcing.
- abhimanyu radhakrishnan
http://www.panos.org.uk/newsfeatures/featureprintable.asp?id=1177
| 01/02/2004 | 1437 words
Untouchables In The World Of IT
By Gail Omvedt
KASEGAON, INDIA (PANOS FEATURES) -- "In Pune they just assume that
anyone working in computers is a Brahmin," says a young man from a
small town near our home in Western India. He, like many Dalits
(ex-Untouchables) is trying to break into the new world of Information
Technology, but fears to reveal his origins to his colleagues. With
caste attitudes continuing to shape marriages, life chances and career
opportunities, the fear is understandable.
Though the current government in India is projecting a feel-good factor
about India -- its catchy phrase is "India shining" -- there are
significant social groups for whom a good deal of rot lies under the
shine. Since caste still operates as a defining condition in
establishing marriages, social relations, and access to employment,
millions of ex-Untouchables and other former low castes remain behind
in education, employment and access to wealth.
Although Untouchability and casteism is banned in India there is wide
practice of discrimination, and statistics show there is a broad
correlation between economic situation and position within the caste
hierarchy.
The government may boast of economic progress and grand new development
schemes such as a golden quadrilateral of highways joining major
cities or plans to interlink major rivers, but it has failed to address
issues such as education, caste and gender discrimination and the
rural-urban gap.
The result is continued upper-caste dominance in the professions,
business, culture and the world of Information Technology.
Dalits are fighting back. In the villages, increasing efforts to claim
simple human rights -- to walk the same roads and drink from the same
teacups that upper caste Hindus use -- have often led to violent
rioting. Efforts of young people to break away from caste-defined
marriage relations have resulted in brutal murders. Dalits have formed
political parties, fighting elections with notable success in some
cases but also coming up against refusals to allow them to vote. They
have fought for land, tried small income-generating projects, joined --
and where possible set up -- their own NGOs. And finally, the new,
small and still insecure Dalit middle class that the system of
reservation -- or positive discrimination -- in education and
public sector employment has helped to foster, is attempting to move
beyond its limitations.
Now, in the new era of a dynamic but privatised economy, most Dalits
are clear that their future lies beyond the public sector.
Three-and-a-half years ago, Dalits converged in massive numbers at
Durban in South Africa to argue before the United Nations World
Conference Against Racism that caste was, indeed, a form of
race-related and birth-linked discrimination. The Indian government
succeeded at the time in preventing any official recognition of this,
but publicity was gained and alliances were made.
Several months later, in January 2002, a large conference of Dalit
intellectuals was held in Bhopal, in the central Indian state of Madhya
Pradesh. It represented the first governmental response to the new
demands being made by Dalits.
One of the major movers of the conference was a young journalist named
Chandrabhan Prasad, the only regular Dalit columnist in an English
daily paper. Prasad had forecast the themes of the conference with a
hard-hitting series of articles contrasting the successes achieved by
affirmative action in the United States with the failures in India.
He compared the percentage of African-Americans at Harvard with the
miserable number of Dalits in Delhi University (less than 2% of the
faculty); and contrasted steps consciously taken by the US Editors
Guild with the failure to even admit the problem in India.
Finally, Prasad pointed out that while the USs leading private
sector IT firm, Microsoft had recognised the need for affirmative
action and was taking steps to increase minority recruitment, engaging
with the community, beginning training programmes, this was something
still undreamed of in corporate India.
"We must get into every field, computers, the professions, the arts,
the media, business; we need to learn English" was the theme activists
like Prasad put forward at the Bhopal conference. The answer lay
conceptually in the notion of Diversity, the idea that the major
societal institutions of wealth, power and privilege should include all
the significant social groups in that society -- in the case of India,
groups defined in terms of caste, gender and religion.
The specific demands in this regard ranged from land for every Dalit
family to the awarding of government contracts to Dalits according to
their proportion in the population, which is about 17.5%.
The broad theme of diversity was endorsed in 2003 by an
international Dalit conference held in Vancouver, Canada, financed by
the earnings and support of those Dalits who had migrated abroad, using
through community religious institutions and using Internet technology
-- including websites and e-groups -- to organise themselves.
Though reservation in the private sector is nominally now
supported by many political parties, the private sector itself has been
slow to respond. Infosys, one of Indias leading -- and Brahmin-run
-- software companies, did sponsor a seminar on Contemporary Dalit
Issues in 2003, but its famous chairman Narayana Murthy only said,
"We have our international compulsions," warning Dalits that private
companies could not afford the rigidities of the reservation system.
Similarly, though some business leaders are beginning to speak of
"corporate social responsibility", none has so far declared their
commitment to ending caste and gender discrimination in society.
Dalits see this as stonewalling by the upper caste-controlled
businesses, and contrast it with the relative openness in the US, where
nearly 50 corporations, including giants like General Motors, have
joined the government in a lawsuit over affirmative action at the
University of Michigan. A significant number of American corporate
leaders see diversity among their employees and CEOs as necessary for
understanding the market and education as necessary for that.
"I am not concerned about the caste of an employee as long he/she
commands merit. But if it helps in the process of selection on merit,
so be it," Murthy had said at the Infosys seminar. In India, however,
merit has become an ideology justifying continued upper caste monopoly.
Merit is contrasted not with incompetence, but with
reservation. It is as if upper-caste monopoly in high-level jobs
were a result of a genetically-coded ability to think and perform,
while reservations were a gift presented -- at the cost of
slowing down efficiency, by hiring unqualified people in order to meet
social justice demands.
A strong refusal to research and discuss caste has meant ignoring the
heavy disadvantages in education, language, articulation, and
socialisation that Dalits and other low castes have to fight, not to
mention evading the degree to which Indians access their jobs through
caste and kin networks. Indias growing claim to a global IT presence
has only exacerbated these attitudes. If upper caste Brahmins have
always seemed to live in a world of philosophy and abstraction, the
electronic virtual realm of IT seems somehow especially
appropriate for them.
From the time caste was established in India, it meant a separation
between production and the world of learning. Even during the colonial
period, when Indians went abroad, they studied law and medicine or
focused on passing the civil service examinations -- in contrast, say,
to the broad Japanese move into engineering and technology.
Now that some Indians from elite backgrounds are proving themselves in
the world of IT, there seems to be little compulsion to broaden this,
to make technological and educational achievement a truly national and
universal aim.
The result has been not only a loss for the low caste majority, but
Indias loss as well. In spite of vaunted progress, Indias
presence in IT is a shallow one. The latest UN Human Development
Report, for example, reveals that there were only 38 telephone
mainlines per 1,000 people in 2001, up from 6 in 1990; only 6 cellular
subscribers and 6.8 Internet users out of 1,000 in 2001, up from a base
of near zero.
This compared badly even with the averages for developing countries,
which had risen from a similarly insignificant base to 87 telephone
mainlines, 75 cellular subscribers, and 26.5 Internet users in the same
period.
Behind this halting progress lie several factors, including bad roads
and electricity in the rural areas that hamper rural computer use. But
the most striking failure of Indias development lies in the field of
education. Though literacy and school attendance have improved in the
1990s, ongoing negative attitudes of many teachers towards low-caste
students have hampered efforts to change. Even in prestigious
institutions professors often simply pass their reservation quota
students without trying to give them any significant training to help
them overcome their obstacles.
The end result: a world of IT excluding the large majority of the
population./PANOS FEATURES
Gail Omvedt is a noted Indian sociologist, author and activist.
This feature is published by Panos Features and can be reproduced free
of charge. Please credit the author and Panos Features and send a copy
to MAC, Panos Institute, 9 White Lion St, London N1 9PD, UK. Email:
media@panoslondon.org.uk
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